May 6, 2019 at 4:07 pm #5927GWTW1939Participant@gwtw1939
I don’t understand why Jon couldn’t have a better goodbye to his wolf. I was like, dang, wolf just got cut to the quick! Yeah, I’ll bet it was cheaper than having Jon interact with a CGI wolf or whatever for a goodbye. It was just poorly done though.
Yes! I agree about Missandei. I was mad that she was even captured, but then having to be killed off like that. With Cersei too much of a jerk to even do the dirty work herself. I seriously thought Missandei was going to kill herself first by jumping, like Alice Munro does in Last of the Mohicans. And then when she yelled out “dracharis” I felt like there had to be a bigger, hidden meaning to that. That’s why I started thinking about secret/additional dragons.May 6, 2019 at 6:05 pm #5928
I have some different thoughts on the episode than you, Mary. This episode I had mix feelings about much that happened. But I’m going to wait to post my thoughts. A friend is coming over to watch it tomorrow. It’ll be a her first watch and my rewatch. We really enjoy analyzing and discussing the show together. .May 6, 2019 at 6:27 pm #5929
Also on the books…🙄. GRRM is the suckiest of all suck. Books 6 and 7 aren’t even out so the show is ahead of the books. The show also started to stray from the books in Season 3. Not too much at that time, but each progressive season had more changes. I’m glad I wasn’t reading the books since Game of Thrones came out in 97. I’d be really angry waiting for the books to finish to see the show take over. I really don’t foresee the books staying in the same storyline. I recently watched a video from a few years ago where GRRM said he was having a tough time writing the books because he wanted surprises and it’s hard to surprise with all the fan fiction and theories out there. My take, write your own damn story the way you saw it that makes sense with all the details he’s put in the 5 books. But he’ll be dead before book 7 comes out. We may get Winds of Winter (book 6).May 6, 2019 at 6:29 pm #5930
No the books don’t indicate she can have more dragons. Don’t know if there are dragon eggs out there somewhere. Don’t recall then even mentioning there are any.May 7, 2019 at 5:48 am #5931GWTW1939Participant@gwtw1939
Thanks Abs! I have never read the books, but in the beginning my bro used to tell me how similar/not similar they were to the show. And then it seems like the show just took on a mind of its own as GRRM takes forever to finish his series.May 7, 2019 at 9:08 am #5936
Yes! I totally thought Missandei would die at her own hands….preferably dragging Cersei down with her. But nope, gotta have her go out that way stupid male writers.May 7, 2019 at 9:14 am #5938
Anyway – I always thought that Dany would go down the “mad” route. I’m not even surprised about that. It’s the way it’s treated & being handled. She’s in one hell of a lonely position. She reminds me of Frodo in LOTR – the person who changed and went through so much to save the world, only to be outcast among the very people she saved..And I just don’t like seeing her go though it. I knew I wouldn’t despite it’s inevitability. I think of all the work she’s put in over the span of the seasons and now it’s unraveling. And everyone is just waiting & watching to see it happen, probably while eating grapes. Ugh!May 7, 2019 at 4:13 pm #5941
Ok, after a rewatch, debate with Drea and more thought, I realize what irked me the most about the episode was nothing really surprised me.
1. The romantic in me really wanted Arya to accept Gendry’s proposal. I’ve been a fan and onboard with this duo since seasons 2 and 3. With that being said, it wouldn’t have made sense for Arya to accept. She still has her own agenda to fulfill. Perhaps after that, she’ll choose a life of love. I just don’t want to see her die.
2. Brienne and Jaime. I see them at soulmates, but didn’t want the physical, but my friend Drea made me rethink my view on this. Brienne is a warrior for sure and first, but never thought she’d ever have sex and has low self confidence of her physical self and her sexuality. Trust me…I can relate. Brienne would only give up her virginity to a man she loved and respected. Jaime has been that man since sometime in season 3. She sees the best of who he is. Her sexuality is an important arc for her story. While I love Tormund, he was never the man for her. Jaime loves and respects her as well. The only other woman he’s been with is Cersei so the choice was big for him. I wasn’t a fan of how they parted with her crying. I can see why he believes he’s not good for her. I just hope he doesn’t go back to do Cersei’s bidding again.
3. Ghost. Wtf was that. Really Jon? You couldn’t even pet or hug your direwolf? No love. Stupid.
4. Jon and Dany. I have a lot of conflicting feelings on Dany. Dany is throne happy. She consistently says it’s her right. While she earned the trust the of the Dothraki, unsullied and others in the east, she’s never tried to do so in the West. She expects those that don’t know her to just blindly follow her. Jon has continuously fought for and then died for the North and greater good. He’s almost too honorable to a fault, like Ned, where he wouldn’t break his word. He’s never wanted the throne which is why I’ve always believed he’d be the best for him. As far as making Dany crazy. I don’t see that as a female thing. I see that as writing her arc like her father’s. I hope she doesn’t choose that path. I really don’t. I want to love her again, but I have a hard time. Dany expecting Jon to keep the truth of his lineage a secret is wrong. It’s not her choice. She’s very self involved at times.
5. Strategy. Ugh. So stupid this attack strategy they had in the last episode. Like fuck. They have a face changing assassin and a three eyed Raven on their side. Why not use both to unseat Cersei. Dany attacking and then losing a dragon was such an obvious and stupid plan. They have smart people on their side, unsure why they’re not acting smarter.
6. Why the hell was Missandei in warships? She can’t fight. It’s stupid. We knew her or Greyworm’s death was coming so I wasn’t surprised.
7. What I want happening…Arya to take down Euron. Jaime to take down Cersei. Tyrion on the iron throne. Dany aand/or Jon to die. Really don’t want both living at the end.
I want the writing to be better and smarter for the characters and it just wasn’t for me. I hope the next 2 hours and 40 min of this show are really good.May 7, 2019 at 4:21 pm #5942
Mary, Dany’s not the only character that’s gone through a lot. Why does she deserve it more? Because she has dragons? She’s done nothing to understand the people in Westeros. I wouldn’t swear my undivided allegiance to get. She uses intimidation tactics and fear to get people bend the knee. She hasn’t earned the iron throne. I, personally, don’t remotely see the similarities between her and Frodo. Frodo wasn’t outcastes. He just couldn’t live like that anymore. He chose to go to the Grey Havens to be at peace. Sansa has gone through hell and back. So has Arya. Jon has fought and died. Yes she’s lost, but others have as well. Maybe it’s time for the throne to be blown up and each of the seven kingdoms have their own leader/ruler of their choosing.May 7, 2019 at 7:30 pm #5943
Never said that others didn’t lose anything. In fact, I said that I like many of the other characters and appreciate the losses that they’ve gone through. I also didn’t say she deserved it more. I said I hated how they were falling back on the “crazy woman” line instead of writing intelligently.
Aside from Cersei, I pretty much like every character on the show.
I said that Arya was a rock star. Her character development is consistent. She definitely doesn’t belong on the throne because she’s an assassin. She’s a warrior. Kudos to the writers for writing that correctly. That’s why she’s my favorite.
I said that I like Sansa’s story and her character development. She’s still letting her pride get in the way of giving Dany a CHANCE. Never said she had to accept her but has she even tried? Not IMO. And to smugly say she won’t see Cersei die after all to Jaime? To imply that Dany’s going to fail? Ugh – that was such a childish, petty thing to say. And I’m furious that her character has to be grateful for being raped and tortured in order to feel legitimate to be in a place a power. That’s anger at the writers, not the character. Her character deserves to take pride in where she is & who she’s become, not because of what was done to her but because of how she handled it. Again, poor shitty writing.
Jon, yes, he’s great. Love the guy. Love what he’s done on that wall, what he’s done to unite people. Does that mean he’s one up on Dany to the throne because of blood lines and a penis? That’s the part of the story that I do not like. That convo between Varys and Tyrion could have been a conversation in any boardroom today. Put the man in power. He may be crazy but he has a cock. Ugh!
I even said, I expect Dany to go Mad. Her path to Cersei has been riddled with battle – personal, political and physical. She was sold off to a barbarian. She found love in an awful situation She lost 2 of her dragons…her one link to a past that she fully embraces and loves, her one driving force. In essence her children. She has conquered dominating men while releasing thousands of slaves. She has the Unsullied by her side, not through intimidation, but by loyalty. Does she deserve an equal shot at the throne – hell yeah she does. And I’m not saying her path was perfect. But the role of ruler comes with making decisions between bad and worse.
I absolutely believe she deserves a fair shot at the throne, not for it to be discarded because she’s a hysterical female. No thanks. The writers should be able to intelligently write a strong woman who can face Cersei without making her conniving, desperate or emotional. Like I said – the way it’s playing out is predictable. I don’t want a battle between Cersei & Cersei 2.
My issue with the episode is not that Dany is going to lose (like I said, I expect that) – it’s that they’re writing the women, the key, strong women in this story as weak, emotional and petty. All of them – with the exception of Arya. Brienne crying? Are you kidding? Over sex? Seriously? Was Jaime that good to be acting like that? You’re a KNIGHT for goodness sake. You know the call to duty better than anyone. OMG, it’s Jaime…you think a few days with you is going to erase a lifetime with Cersei? THAT is piss poor writing. Sansa being smug about Dany losing? She is way better than that! Again, piss poor writing. Why would it have been so hard to have 2 incredible strong & resilient women working together? Why couldn’t we see Sansa reach out to Dany? Why couldn’t we see Dany LISTEN to Sansa & give credence to her knowledge? Why can’t we have these 2 become the powerhouses they can be. 2 strong houses, 2 incredible women. Too hard for the writers? Well, shame on them. And yet, Jon is where it’s at – heeeeeey! That’s directed at all the men fawning over him – not you. 🙂 Soooooo predictable.
Thank goodness for Arya. I can count on her to be the woman I want to see.
- This reply was modified 3 years, 7 months ago by Maryrose.
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